Michael
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Post by Michael on Sept 17, 2016 11:25:14 GMT -8
Exodus 20:6 And showing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
Exodus 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy.
Exodus 31:17-16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant. It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.
Romans 9:6 It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.
Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
True and False Disciples Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me you evildoers!’ God's will is that we keep His commands.
Matthew 5:19 I have noticed that Matthew 5:19 is not correctly translated. The word (THESE) follows the word (commands) in the original text. “of these” should read “of the” ( TWN / TON )
“These” is referring to people, not the commands.
5130 / toutwn / touton: genitive case plural masculine or neuter of outoV - houtos 3778; of (from or concerning) these (persons or things):--such, their, these (things), they, this sort, those.
See Matthew 5:19 link: www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/Greek_Index.htm
Matthew 5:19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands, and teaches others accordingly, will be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
This is how Matthew 5:19 should read: Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of the commands, and those teaching others accordingly, will be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever practices and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
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Post by visionary on Sept 19, 2016 18:29:10 GMT -8
I think it is the seal and mark of God upon His children.
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Michael
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Post by Michael on Sept 20, 2016 6:24:46 GMT -8
I think it is the seal and mark of God upon His children. The Sabbath being a part of the commandments is only a part. The seal, or mark, is the commandments of God. There are many who teach that Christians do not have to keep the commandments.
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Post by guppyu on Mar 9, 2017 20:20:56 GMT -8
2:14 having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross. lCol 2:15 And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross. 2:16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.
religious festival = annual Sabbath new moon Sabbath=monthly Sabbath say= weekly Sabbath
Sabbath is still very important, but our Sabbath is no longer a annual rest or a monthly rest or a weekly rest. Our Sabbath is Jesus, our rest is in him.
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Michael
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Post by Michael on Mar 9, 2017 20:43:38 GMT -8
2:14 having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross. lCol 2:15 And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross. 2:16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.
religious festival = annual Sabbath new moon Sabbath=monthly Sabbath say= weekly Sabbath
Sabbath is still very important, but our Sabbath is no longer a annual rest or a monthly rest or a weekly rest. Our Sabbath is Jesus, our rest is in him. This is about any past sins: 13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14 having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross.
Christ and the disciples kept the Sabbath command, even the first Christians kept the Sabbath command.
Matthew 12:3. He answered, "Haven't you read what David did when he and his companions were hungry? 4. He entered the house of God, and he and his companions ate the consecrated bread—which was not lawful for them to do, but only for the priests. 5. Or haven't you read in the Law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple desecrate the day and yet are innocent? 6. I tell you that one greater than the temple is here. 7. If you had known what these words mean, 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice,' you would not have condemned the innocent. 8. For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath."
Since the disciples were only getting something to eat, and not harvesting the field, then they were innocent. I also see scripture that says that they went to the synagogue or each others house on the seventh day. And Paul after preaching on the seventh day also instructs Christians to gather on the first day to do some work. So where can I find this Sunday commandment.
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Post by Guppy on Mar 9, 2017 21:16:48 GMT -8
I am not saying Sunday is a Sabbath day. I said Jesus is our Sabbath rest. I rest in him everyday. scripture tells us he is Lord of Sabbath and in him our rest is eternal
Also Jesus had to keep the Sabbath, he had to fulfill the law and did so by keeping it. He was without sin. He fulfilled the law, so that when we are in him we keep all of the law.
Paul tells us plainly in col that we need not worry about certain days
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Michael
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Post by Michael on Mar 10, 2017 6:15:12 GMT -8
I am not saying Sunday is a Sabbath day. I said Jesus is our Sabbath rest. I rest in him everyday. scripture tells us he is Lord of Sabbath and in him our rest is eternal
Also Jesus had to keep the Sabbath, he had to fulfill the law and did so by keeping it. He was without sin. He fulfilled the law, so that when we are in him we keep all of the law.
Paul tells us plainly in col that we need not worry about certain days It is the festival days, AKA special sabbath days we are not to concern ourselves with.
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Post by Guppy on Mar 10, 2017 14:08:45 GMT -8
I am not saying Sunday is a Sabbath day. I said Jesus is our Sabbath rest. I rest in him everyday. scripture tells us he is Lord of Sabbath and in him our rest is eternal
Also Jesus had to keep the Sabbath, he had to fulfill the law and did so by keeping it. He was without sin. He fulfilled the law, so that when we are in him we keep all of the law.
Paul tells us plainly in col that we need not worry about certain days It is the festival days, AKA special sabbath days we are not to concern ourselves with.That is not what it says in col 2:16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.
Religious festivals are annual Sabbaths, like Passover, Pentecost, Yom Kippur these are annual Sabbaths. They are celebrated once a year.
The new moon is a monthly Sabbath and the Sabbath day is a weekly Sabbath, notice here in col 2:16 Paul has listed all Sabbath, not just Religious festivals, which are the annual sabbaths
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Michael
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Post by Michael on Mar 10, 2017 17:18:36 GMT -8
It is the festival days, AKA special sabbath days we are not to concern ourselves with. That is not what it says in col 2:16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.
Religious festivals are annual Sabbaths, like Passover, Pentecost, Yom Kippur these are annual Sabbaths. They are celebrated once a year.
The new moon is a monthly Sabbath and the Sabbath day is a weekly Sabbath, notice here in col 2:16 Paul has listed all Sabbath, not just Religious festivals, which are the annual sabbaths
The book of Colossians and the Sabbath comment is questionable. Epistle to the Colossians: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epistle_to_the_Colossians
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Post by Guppy on Mar 11, 2017 10:01:57 GMT -8
That is not what it says in col 2:16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.
Religious festivals are annual Sabbaths, like Passover, Pentecost, Yom Kippur these are annual Sabbaths. They are celebrated once a year.
The new moon is a monthly Sabbath and the Sabbath day is a weekly Sabbath, notice here in col 2:16 Paul has listed all Sabbath, not just Religious festivals, which are the annual sabbaths
The book of Colossians and the Sabbath comment is questionable. Epistle to the Colossians: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epistle_to_the_ColossiansThe questionable part is, if Paul wrote it or not. Not whether it should be in the cannon of scripture
What you are suggesting is God was not in control of the putting together of his Word. That this cannon of scripture is not perfect, then it is not trustworthy. Whether or not Paul penned Colossians does not make it less Gods Word
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Michael
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Post by Michael on Mar 11, 2017 11:56:36 GMT -8
The questionable part is, if Paul wrote it or not. Not whether it should be in the cannon of scripture
What you are suggesting is God was not in control of the putting together of his Word. That this cannon of scripture is not perfect, then it is not trustworthy. Whether or not Paul penned Colossians does not make it less Gods Word
Finding the truth requires a spirit of discernment. God prophesied that His word (The Bible) would be tampered with. Christ and the disciples kept the Sabbath, they also preached keeping the commands of God.
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Post by Guppy on Mar 12, 2017 15:10:48 GMT -8
The questionable part is, if Paul wrote it or not. Not whether it should be in the cannon of scripture
What you are suggesting is God was not in control of the putting together of his Word. That this cannon of scripture is not perfect, then it is not trustworthy. Whether or not Paul penned Colossians does not make it less Gods Word
Finding the truth requires a spirit of discernment. God prophesied that His word (The Bible) would be tampered with. God prophesied that His word (The Bible) would be tampered with. Christ and the disciples kept the Sabbath, they also preached keeping the commands of God. keeping the commands of God.Finding the truth requires a spirit of discernment.
I agree
God prophesied that His word (The Bible) would be tampered with.
Can you give me the scripture that would make you think Colossians might have been tampered with
Christ and the disciples kept the Sabbath, they also preached keeping the commands of God. keeping the commands of God
Christ and his disciples were still under the law. They had to follow the law. We, when we are in Christ we follow all of the Law.
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Michael
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Post by Michael on Mar 12, 2017 17:01:59 GMT -8
Finding the truth requires a spirit of discernment. God prophesied that His word (The Bible) would be tampered with. God prophesied that His word (The Bible) would be tampered with. Christ and the disciples kept the Sabbath, they also preached keeping the commands of God. keeping the commands of God. Finding the truth requires a spirit of discernment.
I agree
God prophesied that His word (The Bible) would be tampered with.
Can you give me the scripture that would make you think Colossians might have been tampered with
Christ and the disciples kept the Sabbath, they also preached keeping the commands of God. keeping the commands of God
Christ and his disciples were still under the law. They had to follow the law. We, when we are in Christ we follow all of the Law.
Same Law Same Inheritance Leviticus 24 22. You are to have the same law for the alien and the native-born. I am the Lord your God.’” Ezekiel 47 21. “You are to distribute this land among yourselves according to the tribes of Israel. 22 You are to allot it as an inheritance for yourselves and for the aliens who have settled among you and who have children. You are to consider them as native-born Israelites; along with you they are to be allotted an inheritance among the tribes of Israel. 23 In whatever tribe the alien settles, there you are to give him his inheritance,” declares the Sovereign Lord.
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Post by Guppy on Mar 16, 2017 18:19:06 GMT -8
You should give your thoughts on how and why the scripture you use, support your beliefs.
Based on the scripture you quoted, I would assume you think we still need to follow the law.
I really don't understand your point
maybe you would like to say it a little different to help me underdtand
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Michael
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Post by Michael on Mar 16, 2017 18:29:00 GMT -8
You should give your thoughts on how and why the scripture you use, support your beliefs.
Based on the scripture you quoted, I would assume you think we still need to follow the law.
I really don't understand your point
maybe you would like to say it a little different to help me underdtand It would be helpful for you to read some of the things I have posted on the subjects board. Let me see if I have a link for you. Be right back.
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Michael
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Post by Michael on Mar 16, 2017 18:35:45 GMT -8
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Post by Guppy on Mar 17, 2017 19:08:50 GMT -8
Ok, so you believe that we do not need to follow the Law any longer, but I still don't know what you were trying to say with your verses Leviticus 24 Ezekiel 47 My question was where in scripture does it say that Gods word will be tampered with, you were basically saying that the book of Colossians is not trustworthy.
Circumcision is an eternal Law Genesis 17 10-13
Passover is an eternal covenant a lasting ordinance (forever)
There are many lasting ordinances
Even though they are a eternal law, we no longer have to follow them, because Christ fulfilled them
It is the same with the Sabbath, he fulfilled the Sabbath, he is our eternal rest. The weekly Sabbath is a shadow of the things to come. Christ our eternal rest
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people
And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
His laws are now written on our hearts, there is not need to teach someone to follow the Sabbath. Paul says the same thing in second Corinthians
2Co 3:3 You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.
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Michael
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Post by Michael on Mar 17, 2017 19:18:57 GMT -8
Ok, so you believe that we do not need to follow the Law any longer, but I still don't know what you were trying to say with your verses Leviticus 24 Ezekiel 47 My question was where in scripture does it say that Gods word will be tampered with, you were basically saying that the book of Colossians is not trustworthy.
Circumcision is an eternal Law Genesis 17 10-13
Passover is an eternal covenant a lasting ordinance (forever)
There are many lasting ordinances
Even though they are a eternal law, we no longer have to follow them, because Christ fulfilled them
It is the same with the Sabbath, he fulfilled the Sabbath, he is our eternal rest. The weekly Sabbath is a shadow of the things to come. Christ our eternal rest
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people
And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
His laws are now written on our hearts, there is not need to teach someone to follow the Sabbath. Paul says the same thing in second Corinthians
2Co 3:3 You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.
[/
We are still to keep the moral commands of God, and the sabbath.
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Post by Guppy on Mar 18, 2017 15:40:18 GMT -8
Ok, so you believe that we do not need to follow the Law any longer, but I still don't know what you were trying to say with your verses Leviticus 24 Ezekiel 47 My question was where in scripture does it say that Gods word will be tampered with, you were basically saying that the book of Colossians is not trustworthy.
Circumcision is an eternal Law Genesis 17 10-13
Passover is an eternal covenant a lasting ordinance (forever)
There are many lasting ordinances
Even though they are a eternal law, we no longer have to follow them, because Christ fulfilled them
It is the same with the Sabbath, he fulfilled the Sabbath, he is our eternal rest. The weekly Sabbath is a shadow of the things to come. Christ our eternal rest
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people
And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
His laws are now written on our hearts, there is not need to teach someone to follow the Sabbath. Paul says the same thing in second Corinthians
2Co 3:3 You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.
[/
We are still to keep the moral commands of God, and the sabbath.Agreed, and we keep them when we keep Christ first in our life
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Post by Gadar Perets on Nov 10, 2017 19:28:50 GMT -8
I am not saying Sunday is a Sabbath day. I said Jesus is our Sabbath rest. I rest in him everyday. scripture tells us he is Lord of Sabbath and in him our rest is eternal
Also Jesus had to keep the Sabbath, he had to fulfill the law and did so by keeping it. He was without sin. He fulfilled the law, so that when we are in him we keep all of the law.
Paul tells us plainly in col that we need not worry about certain days You are misunderstanding Colossians 2:14-17. Let's first determine the context of chapter two. In verses 4 and 8 Paul warns the Colossians about deceivers. Then again, in verse 18, Paul gives his final warning about these same deceivers. In what way were they trying to deceive the Colossians? Verse 8 tells us that they were trying to exalt the traditions of men over the Messiah (verses 8 & 19). Notice carefully the context; the traditions of men in verse 8, 18, and 22. The verses that occur between 8 and 22 must be understood based on the context of the traditions of men. It was the deceivers of verses 4,8, and 18 that were judging the Colossians regarding the things mentioned in verse 16. They had been imposing their man-made commandments and traditions upon the Colossians. Paul told them not to allow anyone to judge them concerning those matters. An important addition was made in the KJV that does not appear in any Greek manuscript. The word "is " in verse 17 was added, which changes the meaning of Paul's statement. That is why it is written in italics. Retaining the word "is" implies the thought of shadow vs. reality. In other words, Messiah fulfilled the shadow of the things mentioned in verse 16. The NKJV attempts to make the KJV mistake clearer by using the word "substance" rather than "body is". However, if you remove the added word " is", it implies that we should not let any man outside the body of Messiah judge us in respect to these things. Indeed that is in line with the context of Paul's previous statements. Notice Colossians 1:18 & 24 and Colossians 2:19, all of which teach us that the "body" (Greek - soma) of Messiah is the church or all true believers. As for your belief that "Jesus is our Sabbath rest", that is not true. It is true that Yeshua gives us spiritual rest from sin and from seeking to be justified by our works, but he does NOT give us the physical rest that the Sabbath provides. Nor does he give animals the physical rest the Sabbath provides. Is is against YHWH's law for a farmer today, for example, to work his animal plowing the fields seven days a week. The animals still need rest as do we humans after working six days. If you are going to say we no longer need a physical rest, then, by extension, we no longer need to work either. The commandment says we are to labor six days and rest the 7th.
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